Kate Butcher
Hello. So we’re here today to welcome to the podcast, Vicki Bowden. So, Vicki is a multiple business owner and busy Mum, and she’s here today to talk to us about how she juggles all of her businesses and her family and stays sane in doing so. So welcome to the podcast today Vicki.

Vicki Bowden
Hi, thank you for having me. Super excited.

Kate Butcher

Fantastic. We’re very excited to have you. I’m very excited to have you here. I say “we” as if there’s more than one of us, but it’s just me. So first of all to get started, can you tell us a little bit about your businesses… I was gonna say business… but businesses, multiple and your family. Give us a bit of a summary of who you are.

Vicki Bowden
So I am a married Mum of 2. My children are 5 and 2. In a previous life, I was a teacher and then had a career change for my children and my businesses are V Bowden Photography. So I specialise in newborn photography mostly, but have other aspects as well. And also Early Years Mum, which is a sort of early years consultancy business where I offer support and courses for parents who’d like to find out more about child development & education, and also a freelance blog for Red Kite Days Buckinghamshire. So three hats at the moment.

Kate Butcher
And in terms of your children and your family, you said that you were a teacher, but then you decided to shift careers. So what sort of ages were your children when you decided to launch a business?

Vicki Bowden
I never thought that I would do anything other teaching. I’ve wanted to be a teacher since I was five. I loved my teachers. And there’s something that just changed when I started a family and I loved my job, and it all changed when I went back after my maternity leave with my first little boy and I suddenly had this other purpose and I didn’t want to be with other people’s children rather than my own. And that was the biggest thing for me. I was senior management as well. So I worked very long hours, and I would have to wake him up in the morning, take him out of bed in his pyjamas to my parents & his childcare and then I would get home and he’d already be getting ready for bed. And I was just missing out on so many things that I just knew that something had to change. And I think it was because my Mum had a career change later in life and became self-employed and started her own business and I also watched my sister in law doing the same, and she’s slightly younger than me actually and she was self employed, and built her own business, and I supported them in building up their brands and thought I want a bit of this. They manage their own hours and I just had that feeling that there’s more out there. And I could do something different and break away from that nine to five and it was a really strong call. So I had to kind of think about what I might do I sort of built an exit plan, I suppose. So that by the time I had my second child, I could resign and walk away from teaching and I had built my business enough to be able to chase that instead.

Kate Butcher
I was going to ask you what your motivation was for starting your business, but you’ve pretty much just answered it there for me. So it was really about spending time with your family, spending time with your children that was your primary focus?

Vicki Bowden
I think I just got really burnt out as well. And you don’t always recognise how burnt out you are until you step back. And I just realised actually I was falling out of love with my job. And I wanted to be able to do the school run when when he was starting school and preschool and nurseries and I wanted to be able to go to some groups with him and just enjoy him and be less grumpy with my husband, because I was less stressed out by trying to fit too many hours into a day.

Kate Butcher
Absolutely. that’s fantastic. It’s a great reason to want to start your own businesses to manage your own hours. And I think a reason that a lot of Mums do decide to start their own business. It seems to be, amongst the women I know certainly, although I do tend to surround myself with mums in business, but it tends to be a very significant time in many people’s lives to make that decision. And really interesting as well that you say that you’d always imagine being a teacher you never imagined that you would do anything else.

Vicki Bowden
No never imagined anything else. And I think it was partly having my own baby. It’s funny actually because my sister in law & my brother has a photo shoot for their baby who was born about six months before my first, and I looked at the photos and thought “I can do that” and it was just a little part of me thinking I should do this. So I started just to self teach myself online and I went on some courses, in person as well as online. And I realised actually I could do it. And I’ve always been a bit of technology geek. So anything techie was right up my street and I’ve always loved photos and had cameras since I was small. And it just it made me think, yeah, I can do this. There’s something else and I don’t have to be tied into teaching. It’s okay to do different things and change your mind and change your paths.

Kate Butcher
Absolutely. That’s again, a really good point. I think it’s very easy, particularly once you start a business as well, to start to pivot or change direction. And it’s something that a lot of people that I’ve worked with found, that they start a business with the aim of doing one thing and ended up doing something completely different, which they absolutely love. But something which that initial new business has led them into. And I think it’s really important to be open minded about what you want to do, what you’re going to do, what you’re going to adapt to do.

Vicki Bowden
Mines changed loads. When I think back to my first sort of ideas, I really wanted to do the baby in a basket with some flowers in there and it’s just not me, and I couldn’t do it. And it actually wasn’t what I loved. So my business has changed a lot and developed a lot into actually something that’s really true to me, I suppose.

Kate Butcher
And how would you describe your photography style now?

Vicki Bowden
So, it’s funny because it’s developed out of having my two children and particularly after my second, it took a bit of a steer in a different direction. Because my real underlying thing is about Mum and baby’s wellbeing during my sessions, so I don’t want to drag Mum out for a newborn session. You know, 10 days postpartum when actually all she wants to do is curl up on her bed and feel comfy and have someone bring her a cup of tea. I really struggled after the birth of my second and I would never have got out to a studio with a one week old baby and a toddler. I wouldn’t have got out of the house on time. I wouldn’t have packed anything I needed to pack and I would have felt really pressured to be perfect Mum for the camera. So now my style is very relaxed and very friendly and I’ve got a real passion for postnatal care, and it just puts mums needs and baby’s needs first.

Kate Butcher
Yeah, you’re so right. It’s easy to forget I think after a long time, it’s six years since my youngest was a newborn. And you do forget that it’s a really difficult time. Just day to day functioning, having a shower, those kind of things are really hard to manage aren’t they? And yeah, I think it’s fantastic that your business is adapting to the Mums and the babies. Amazing. Thank you. So in terms of starting your business, can you remember, did you have any particular fears when you were thinking about starting a business, before you launched? And did they hold you back at all?

Vicki Bowden
Do you know what, it’s really funny. I thought it was going to be really easy. And I don’t think my fears kicked in until I started and then I realised it wasn’t as easy as I thought it was gonna be. And I’m a big one for imposter syndrome. Look at every one else around me and thinking I can’t do this. I should be a teacher again. How dare I go and change my mind. This isn’t me. I’m a fake. That was my my… and that still creeps in sometimes.

Kate Butcher
Imposter syndrome is something that we all face I think, at some point. I’ve only ever met one person I think who said that they didn’t have any concept of what it was. But from the conversations I’ve had with so many women, mums, not mums, it’s something that women in particular really do feel and it does creep in even when you’ve worked on it loads, doesn’t it? I know you’ve done a lot of work on it and like you say it still can creep in. So how do you manage it now when it does creep in?

Vicki Bowden
Erm, that’s a really interesting one. I had my confidence really knocked when I changed jobs, when I resigned from teaching, because that was my identity. That was who I was. So I try really hard not to look at my competition. So I’ve unfollowed a lot of people on Instagram and things like that, on social media who I was previously aspiring to be like, because actually I think, constantly flooding myself with their images and how they’re doing a better job of social media or whatever it is, than what I’m doing, wasn’t really helping me. And I’m better to just stay with my little bubble of people that I trust and know to get feedback and things and see my own improvement. Definitely looking back on old images and things like that, and my first flyers or gift cards and marketing things and then looking at their how they are now is the best measure for me. I mean, if I show you my first photos of me posing my little boy for example. And he’s five now, they were horrendous. I mean laughable to try and say I’m a professional. So I think for me, just to see how far I’ve come and not compare to other people.

Kate Butcher
Comparisonitis, yeah – it’s a killer, isn’t it? It’s an absolute killer for so many, again, women… Mums… We all I think are guilty of comparing ourselves to others around us. I heard a really great analogy on a podcast I listened to a couple of years ago now I think. And I can’t even remember whose podcast it was on. But it was a guest that they had and they were basically saying that just because somebody has an amazing website, doesn’t mean they have a successful business behind it. Just because someone puts incredible photos on Instagram, doesn’t mean they’re getting the clients. Just because someone has huge amounts of followers, doesn’t mean that they’re converting, and what we see of other people’s businesses… we tend to look at that person’s amazing website, that person’s beautiful photos on social media, that person’s following numbers and think, “I need to be all of those things” whereas potentially each of them might be just one of those things, but they might also… you never know what’s going on behind that image that people put up. People are very quick to put up on social media, in my personal life and in business, about their successes and the things that are going really well but a lot of time people don’t share their struggles. And it’s really easy to compare.

Vicki Bowden
Yeah, definitely. And you know, especially being a photographer, I know how to make a photo look good and I will show my best ones. And there are some that come out of my camera which are awful, and I won’t share because I want to show my best work, but that is part of the reason why on my social media I do lives quite a lot because that’s my way of just being a bit more me and there’s no mask and I’m not a big one for wearing makeup. I never have been and I don’t consider myself to be a girly girl either. So I’m just in a plain t shirt and some jeans. That’s me, take me as I am. And so I use my Facebook Lives and things particularly as a way of sort of breaking down that barrier of perfection that you can kind of sometimes see on that social media platform where everything looks how how you want it to be, and all perfect.

Kate Butcher
and that’s what makes you relatable to all the other mums around you. Definitely. I mean, certainly I watch a lot of your Facebook lives on your various platform. And yeah, I can relate to you because not only you’re somebody I’ve met and I know, but the things you talk about are normal and it’s just you doing a quick Facebook Live about something and it’s about something, you know, taking your children to the park or whatever it might be, so yeah, it’s totally relatable, which is so important, I think.

Thank you, so what would you say is your biggest challenge either now or maybe in the past when your children were at a different age? What has been or is the biggest challenge for you juggling business and parenting?

Vicki Bowden
Sleep Deprivation!! No doubt! I didn’t realise how lucky I was that my first child slept, until I had my second, who could not be more different. So I resigned. Just to give you a time scale. So I resigned from my teaching role to finish in the Easter, when I was pregnant with my second. I then had a term, a sort of school term, at home with my eldest before having my second in October. He then started preschool for a few mornings, I had some maternity leave with her to build business. And then just when she started getting old enough to try and to do some preschool and nursery sessions, we had COVID, so I don’t feel like I’ve really had a good go of having no children here, for example, during the day to really give my business a go. And the sleep deprivation was massive after my second, after Millie, she just doesn’t sleep. She still doesn’t and she’s two and a half. So to have a clear mind to achieve anything in a day was just so difficult. And I still battle that now. But I’ve kind of worked out certain times when I can get up in the morning and I feel like yes, today I could be productive. And I try and really make the most of it. And on the other days where I feel just completely like a zombie, I know not to even bother trying because I’m just not going to get anywhere and I’ll get cross that I haven’t achieved anything. And just to kind of give in on those days. Because yes, sleep deprivation is just unreal.

Kate Butcher
Is it giving in? Or is it giving yourself a rest

Vicki Bowden
Yeah, yeah – I suppose. Yeah, okay. I’m one for a list, and I know you very well, Kate, you’re one for a list.

Kate Butcher
I like a list!

Vicki Bowden
And it’s something we’ve talked about a lot because obviously, I’ve known you for a long time as well. And I would try to achieve too much in a day, particularly on no sleep, and with a toddler or a baby. And I would write myself these lists, so it had maybe 10/15 things that were all business specific, not even anything to do with the house or the kids. And it’s not surprising I was never going to achieve them, because I mean she would sleep for 40 minutes maximum and probably in the car, so, you know, we actually had our Wi Fi extended to reach to our your driveway.

Kate Butcher
Amazing!

Vicki Bowden
Because I spent so much time in the car with her asleep, having to drive her to sleep and I could then sit with my computer on my lap, in the passenger seat and work from the car on the driveway. And it’s just having that craving to want to be spending time in your business and frustrated that you’re not getting the time to do it, is what I found really hard to juggle.

Kate Butcher
And I mean, you’ve just showed the amazing versatility of mums to adapt to their situation. To sit in the car, so your little one doesn’t get woken up, with your laptop and to have your Wi Fi extended so that you can do so, is just brilliant. I mean, when you’re a Mum you have to adapt, don’t you. You have to find ways to adapt to fitting in your child’s routine or your child’s needs and your business. And that’s a perfect example of a way that you’ve done so.

Vicki Bowden
One of the things that really helped me, and I know you do the same, is audiobooks. So it was kind of, another way of feeling like I was achieving something in a day when I was having a really really tired day or she’s very clingy as a baby as well or just a really needy day with her. And I need some headspace and it was a way to feel like I’m still learning something and still developing myself. So my self development from the last two years is massive because I’ve just listened to so many audiobooks but by having the wireless headphones, the pods and just keeping one in. So I pretty much always have one ear in, from when I wake up to when I go to bed, because I can just tap it to answer the phone and you know, my family are always calling. We’ve got a huge family, but also I can have an audio book just running in the background. And if it’s one I really have concentrate on then it’s better if I’m out with the buggy and someone is asleep but if I’m pottering around the kitchen and stuff I can kind of do it all quicker if I’m distracted.

Kate Butcher
Yeah, I find exactly the same. I have a headset I wear. I mean this one’s obviously for recording but I have a single headset I wear with a microphone so that when I’m working I can just answer a call, if need be when I’m doing work. And if I need to talk to a client about something I can have full fingers available, whilst I’m talking to my client, and then when I don’t have that on exactly the same… I have a little set of ear bud things and when I’m hanging out washing, when I’m cooking when I’m doing anything then there’s always an audio book or a podcast on, and I do a lot of listening. Talking of audiobooks, do you have a top audio book you would recommend for a Mum who is at the early stages of business that could really help? or a top 2/3?

Vicki Bowden
Okay, so ones that really spoke to me… can I do 3? because they’re all different things. So the first one business wise would be “Profit First.”

Kate Butcher
Amazing book.

Vicki Bowden
It just really helped me understand money. And I mean, I remember asking you back in my very early days, lots of questions about money which I would have thought some 11 year olds probably know the answer to in school now. I felt so silly things those questions, but no one ever told me and I never had to think about before. So Profit First I found really useful. In terms of self development, I would say “Untamed”. It can be quite hard going to listen to, or to read. But there were certain chapters that just really spoke to me and just those little one liners that help you with your self doubt or the way you see the world. There’s a few that really made me stop and think and rewind and make a bookmark of it, and still tell myself those things. And then in terms of motherhood, “Happy Mum, Happy Baby”. I’m a big fan of G – Giovanna Fletcher, partly because I used to love McFly and I still do, and I’m going in October. And she’s married to Tom from McFly. But she just talks really honestly about motherhood and she’s got two books and one of them is also like a diary to her children. So okay to say that actually sometimes your children are really hard work. And I think everyone needs to hear that.

Kate Butcher
Very true. Very true. Fantastic. Those are awesome. Yeah, really good recommendations. The first two books that that I’ve listened to. The first one you mentioned “Profit First” is by Mike Michaelowicz. Profit first, I totally agree. It’s a system I’ve implemented in my business. I actually came across it through a membership I was in with a lady called Catherine Morgan who has a podcast called “In her financial shoes”. And then through that I also met my accountant who is a Profit First accountant and she really helped me to implement it in my business. So that’s my accountant, Hetty Verney, if anyone wants the recommendation for a brilliant Profit First accountant and only one of, I believe eight accredited Profit First accountants in the UK, so it’s a fantastic system to implement for anyone starting business or at the early stages of business. And I suppose just to give anyone listening a really quick summary of it, if they don’t know what it is. It’s about a system of putting aside money so that you’ve always got money there for tax. You’ve always got money to take home for yourself as a business owner and there’s always money there for profit in the business as well. So it’s ensuring that you’re covering all of those things first, then your expenses come out of what’s left, rather than the other way around where you earn all your money, you have all these expenses which build up and build up and build up and then suddenly you find you haven’t got enough to take home at the end of the month or you haven’t got enough when the tax bill comes in. So it’s about tucking away all of that money first into different places so that it’s there and ready and you don’t get a nasty shock when your tax bill arrives. So yeah, that’s a great recommendation. “Untamed” you mentioned as well by Glennon Doyle, which is fantastic. Really good book. I loved the anecdote at the beginning, which is… is it a cheater? I can’t remember the animal, but it’s certainly about a wild cat prowling up and down, that is tamed. It’s caged. So untamed, is about how we as women need to learn to be uncaged. And untamed. Fantastic. And you said, it’s “Happy Mum, Happy Baby” by Giovanni Fletcher. I’m going to have to add that one to my wish list and listen to that on Audible as well because I haven’t and she’s got she’s got a podcast. It’s the same name, is it?

Vicki Bowden
Yes. The podcast is called the same thing.

Kate Butcher
Fantastic. Thank you. That’s some good recommendations for anyone who wants to do some listening and some learning.

And of all the things that you have learned over the years in business. What would you say, just in a business sense, not necessarily in relation to motherhood, but in a business sense, What would you say is the most important thing to do in your business?

Vicki Bowden
Can I have 2?

Kate Butcher
Go on!

Vicki Bowden
So first one, don’t undervalue yourself. I was working for a long time where I wasn’t making any money because I just didn’t have my pricing right. And I had a lot of money blocks and I was worried about putting my prices up, that people wouldn’t pay it. But actually, I just needed to have a different client base. People do pay it now, at the levels that my pricing packages are, and it’s not extortionate money compared to the whole market. I still have a few money blocks to get through. But I now feel like what I have in income matches the time that I put in. That took a while to get to. And my second one is, don’t try and do things you don’t have the skills for in terms of like the wider business. So I kind of say, oh, yeah, I do everything myself. I do my website and do this and do that and money. And actually I’m not the best person to do all those things. Because I don’t have the knowledge and the skills. So do kind of reach out and find the best person to do all those different aspects. I’m a bit of a control freak. And I know you are! So I do like to have control of most of the elements of my business. And you know, I’ve worked with other people who’ve supported me or taught me different elements. So for example, I’ve just redone my website. And I did actually take on help to do that this time. Even though I built my website previously all by myself, and I can do all the changes. I was running up against little technical things that I didn’t have the knowledge for, and I just went right, I’m paying somebody else. This is their expertise. This is their field, and they will make this awesome. And then I can take back control to do the changes and things myself in future and it was absolutely worth it. I’m so pleased I did it.

Kate Butcher
Fantastic! Yeah, and I am very guilty, the same of being as you say, a bit of a control freak. I like to know what’s going on in every area of my business. And for that reason, I do struggle to outsource and I know it’s something a lot of people struggle with. And as a virtual assistant myself, I shouldn’t really be saying that but it’s a reality that we do like to have control of our business. But at the same time it’s also important to learn to recognise, as you say when something is better outsourced to someone who has those skills. That’s a really important one. Thank you. That’s two absolutely brilliant tips. And before we finish can you tell us where we can find you?

Vicki Bowden
Of course. So my website has had a complete revamp, and that’s actually going live in May. So very, very soon and that is www.vbowdenphotography.co.uk. You can also find V Bowden photography on Facebook and Instagram. And then Early Years Mum is earlyyearsmum.co.uk and also Early Years Mum on Facebook and Instagram.

Kate Butcher
Thank you very much. It’s been lovely chatting to you, Vicki, and I will make sure that all of those links go in the show notes so that people can find you in all of the various places where you hang out, if they want to come and check out what you do. Thank you very much.

Vicki Bowden
Thank you for having me.

Kate Butcher
Take care.