How her own teenage anxiety inspired her business with Vivienne Hill
Kate Butcher
Hi. Welcome to the podcast. So today I’ve got Vivienne Hill with me. And I’m going to talk to her all about her experience as a business owner and a mum and how those things run side by side. So, thank you for coming and talking to us.
Vivienne Hill
Thanks for inviting me.
Kate Butcher
Well, it’s lovely to have you. Viv and I know each other very well. We chat probably on an almost daily basis and work together. I’m a client of hers. She’s a client of mine.
Vivienne Hill
Yeah.
Kate Butcher
And we spend a lot of time just catching up and holding each other accountable for our business goals as well. So we know each other pretty well. So it’s quite interesting now, changing the dynamics slightly, interviewing you. So,
Vivienne Hill
Yeah, great.
Kate Butcher
So first of all, Viv, can you introduce yourself and your business and tell us a little bit about what you do?
Vivienne Hill
Gosh, where to start? So my name, you know, Vivienne Hill. So I started out my working life as a pharmacist, and it wasn’t until I was some decades down the road that I sort of started my own business. And partly because I wanted to fit work in with my children, which I think probably a lot of people do. It seemed the only way that I could have the flexibility I needed in order to do school runs and be able to finish at that time, every day. You know, that sort of thing. So that was some years ago when I started my own skincare product and soap making business. I was in Australia at the time. So I had four children under 10 at that stage, a baby who was a few months old, and my partner who was in the military who’d gone off for several months, so actually I was a sole parent of a new baby and others, so I think about it now I think what possessed me to do that, but actually I really liked it. It gave me a feeling of individuality, empowerment, of carving my own niche, carving my own way, doing it my way. And I wasn’t practicing as a pharmacist at the time, I went back to it later, but at the time, I was just doing these two jobs, parenting, and working from home.
And at the same time, I was carting myself and my baby around Sydney, I was in Australia at the time, I carted myself around Sydney showing my wares off to various different shops and so on. And there’s no doubt that I had some success for those few months, but I think I was pretty tired and a bit grumpy that I was doing it on my own.
So, you know, I would say I was 100% successful, but then perhaps my view of success was different from how I look at it now. Or as a friend if I’ve looked at myself. Nowadays however, I don’t do that as a business anymore. I’m back in the UK. And my business is really more about helping young people with my programme Funkhead to live happier lives essentially, to get over the high anxiety and stress that they have in their lives and to really bring some empowerment for them because I think young people are struggling, probably young people have always struggled, the reason I think that I have used this as a place to come to, to work from and the reason that I’ve created Funkhead is because I was that young person and it’s funny how we go back again to the place that maybe was formative that was important for us and fix it. You know, there’s this there’s this adage about it’s never too late to have a happy childhood. That’s me going back now with all my techniques to go back to revisit the place of high anxiety when I’m doing my exam. And the other thing I realised whilst running Funkhead was that parents were in need, often mothers were in need of help, whilst their children were struggling too. So. that’s sort that, that’s the me, is the soul pharmacist working in that area. I have several programmes that I run as the soul pharmacist, so Funkhead the sole pharmacist together my company is called Voluble, Voluble Viv, which is not surprising seeing as you can’t stop me talking once I’ve started and, that’s it in a nutshell, a rather large nutshell, I think.
Kate Butcher
Fantastic. That’s brilliant. Thank you. So actually, you’ve had almost I suppose two different phases of your business mum life one when your children were very young with your soap and skincare business and then more recently, now that your children are a bit older, and you’ve got the new business, which supports young people with anxiety and their parents.
Vivienne Hill
Absolutely.
Kate Butcher
Fantastic. Amazing. My gosh. So, I’m trying to read my notes. I’ve written questions and my handwritings so terrible, like I’ll read what I’ve written.
So your business is for both young people, and also for parents of young people. So what got you interested in supporting young people with anxiety and consequently their parents?
Vivienne Hill
Well, me, my, my response to doing O-Levels, I know that that says how old I am. So that was me. I was a mess. I was so stressed and anxious and having done a lot of work now I realised that I was probably quite traumatised by having gone to boarding school, and that the trauma meant that I was really not able to stay calm and rational about something that everybody else was going through, but I was responding differently to, I mean, we can’t answer why we’re traumatised by things, we don’t know about that, but it did rather traumatise me. And I was stressed, anxious and depressed as well, I think, but still wore like a normal face for the most part, so almost nobody knew that I was going through any difficulty at all. If I had been like that at home, I’m sure my parents would have seen something but because I was at boarding school, they don’t look that closely. And because most of my companions were there 24/7 They just saw the part of me that was normal, jolly and so on. So I was able to function.
With that in mind as I went on through studying as I got older, I suspect that there was always a part of me that wanted to find out what was going on or that wanted to help that 16 year old who was in such a state and also because as I did go on, I continued to do exams, and so every time exams came up, of course, I was, you know, I still have this problem, either I wasn’t studying I was, I was procrastinating and putting it to the side and just not going there. Or I was anxious. And in fact, because I didn’t like the anxiety very much, most of my time was spent procrastinating for removing myself from a situation that meant I had to sit down and work so this had gone on quite a long time, you know, because I went on to, that was my O-Levels, so I then went on to do A-Levels same thing again, then I went on to do my degree, same thing again.
But I did get through those things, it was just really hard work. And something that I wouldn’t, I don’t, I wouldn’t wish on anybody which is why I created the tools that I have the set of tools that I have now and the way that I run the programme is for people like me, and that you know, and so whilst I was working, whilst I’ve been working with young people, I’ve realised that often the upset of the child has triggered past trauma or just created a sense of helplessness, hopelessness, and anxiety in the parents as well, which is why I thought, well hang on, there’s something I need to help, I need to help the parents as well because the parents are often the ones who come to me, worried, anxious about their children and so on. And so sometimes I need to, I need to help them you know, I felt the need to do something for them too.
Kate Butcher
Fantastic. Thank you. So you’ve told us a little bit about the business that you had as a mum, when your children were very young.
Vivienne Hill
Yeah.
Kate Butcher
So can you remember much about the challenges the things that you found really difficult about juggling those two roles in particular?
Vivienne Hill
Well, given that I was a single parent effectively at the time, with four small children, I remember the tiredness, the frustration, the irritation, the “This isn’t fair”, given that I was doing that before I’ve done all this coaching work and so on. Like nowadays, I might deal with it differently. But then, at the time, I didn’t have the tools I now have and so I remember one day quite vividly, being just overwhelmed with the amount of work and so on, and I just reached crisis point and just threw this China bowl on our slate floors bam, and it burst bam into a whole bunch of like fragments, and I looked at the girls at the table because we’re eating dinner, or I’ve finished by the I can’t remember, it was around dinnertime and I said, “sorry. I just had to do that.” And I think that, you know, I think we underestimate our children quite often. And my apology was sufficient to un-traumatise them, you know if they had potentially been traumatisable by that instance and “Oh, my God, I’m really scared because my mum has gone, you know, off her nut” just the apology was enough to let them know I was fine again, that it was a burst of something that had to come out. I just, you know, I just had to do that. Sorry girls. They were all fine.
And so, you know, because my, our minds as parents, and this is how guilt comes in as well, doesn’t it? We often think “oh, well I’m I’m cross or I don’t have the time for my children. I’m frustrated.” And there’s a lot of parent guilt involved. Sorry, that was an aside that was that was a coach part of me. So I felt frustrated because I didn’t feel as though I was getting as far forward as fast as I wanted to do. I was overwhelmed because I had so much to do. And I was chaotic because I didn’t have the peace and quiet around me or in my mind to allow me to think clearly. My emergency brain was in charge, most of the time and so my my clever thinking brain was not doing that. It was my you know, like “Caution! Caution! Warning!” that was, that was going on like all the time, which is why I always felt on edge. And I was busy, so I had to run, you know, children to school and daycare. I think I had so I had one maybe even I don’t know Anyway, there was daycare involved as well. So there was it wasn’t just one place that I had to go to. So there was a lot going on.
Kate Butcher
Absolutely, busy, very busy. And I think life as a mum running a business is undoubtedly busy. And I think, like you’ve touched on there, really overwhelming. Sometimes.
Vivienne Hill
It’s emotional too, isn’t it? It’s emotionally busy, and we unlike our male counterparts who can sometimes dissociate themselves from one life, compartmentalise their lives. “Okay, I’m at work.” And that’s the other thing. Moving to an actual office can sometimes be good because you’re removing yourself from the bit that reminds you you have to do the washing, or the or the washing up, or pick up that thing, or sew that or you know, that sort of thing, or make dinner ready for the onslaught, of the hordes, later. So, men are generally quite good at this. They’re able to compartmentalise partly because they go out to work, and that ability to remove the emotion, means that there’s you know, I’m not saying women can’t do it. And I’m not saying that men are always better than us. But there is something we can learn from our male counterparts in that they are able to dissociate, and allow themselves to think clearly because they don’t have that emotional input.
Now of course, we might think of ourselves as fantastic parents because we have that emotional impulse but I think we need to learn to boundary it, to carve time, when you are mother, when you are being the mother, sure, be the mother, there’s emotion, there’s care there’s helping, all sorts of things, a lot of chores probably. But there’s also a period of time when you’re working from home or not when you’re in need of a more regimented, boundaried approach to what you’re doing. That’s your thinking time. You can’t be in your mother energy when you’re trying to work from home. So that’s one thing I would say. I would say that there’s a necessity to separate our activities or our types of activities and I was in those days sometimes able to do that. I still had the baby but occasionally I put her into daycare for a day so that I could do that. That was luxury for me. Yeah,
Kate Butcher
Absolutely.
Vivienne Hill
I’m sure your listeners there will be many people who, some can, some can do that and some cars do that. Some of them have babies. So it’s that idea of you know, do something while the baby sleeping, if you’re not in need of sleep yourself.
Kate Butcher
Yes. Yes. And those early days when they be small, really are exhausting. And quite often, sleep has to be the priority. So you can function in the other areas of your life.
Vivienne Hill
Absolutely. So as I started that journey of being a single parent for several months, when my baby, who had nearly died being born, was only four months old. And so it was it was quite a thing. The benefit, however, was that she slept 12 hours a night.
Kate Butcher
Fantastic.
Vivienne Hill
Yeah, absolutely.
Kate Butcher
Quite a luxury.
Vivienne Hill
Absolutely. It was luxury.
Kate Butcher
Yeah, absolutely. Wow. I mean, there’s a couple of things you said there, which I certainly think, I as a parent, working can relate to, and I’m sure other people can. One, I totally agree, if you can find a way to remove yourself. If you don’t have a separate office, whether that’s outside the house or an office within the house that you can go to, it can be really valuable, if you have the opportunity, to maybe go to a cafe to work.
I know when my son was really small and still at home, I used to, I got an annual membership to a local farm which had a soft Play Centre inside it with a lovely cafe and at least once a week I would go and set myself up with my laptop at a table, have a coffee and a snack in the morning, we both get lunch, and then I’d have another coffee and a snack in the afternoon. It was definitely a time when there was a lot of cake consumed, but he could just go and play in a safe environment where I could see him in the soft play area, and I could sit and work and it became almost my second office for a year or so it was fantastic. And it gave me a day where I didn’t have total focus on work, but I certainly had a lot more focus and if we were at home when he would have been demanding my attention all the time. So he could he would go off and play for chunks of time and I could still see him, but I could still work. It was fabulous. So yeah, I would definitely encourage any parents just to if you can get out of the house in some way or another and find a place where you can work.
There are the occasional I’ve seen a couple of co-working spaces pop up as well which have a cresh included or something like that. So that’s another possibility, which is great. And the other thing you mentioned there as well was the noise, the focus, the ability to detach. You know what a struggle that is for me because it’s something you and I have spoken about lots, and for those listening Viv and I use an app called Marco Polo, which is a video messaging app. And I’m, I mean, just in the last week, I’m pretty sure there’s several occasions where I’ve sent you a Marco Polo video Viv, and I’ve been interrupted by one of the children or my husband, who’s just as bad to be honest, at interrupting, and as soon as I get that interruption, my focus and my train of thought in what I’m saying to you, it’s just gone, and it takes me a little while to get back and figure out what what I was saying, what it was about. So yeah, having that time and that space, those opportunities take them where you can definitely.
Vivienne Hill
Absolutely and and the more stressed or anxious we are, or tired, the harder it is to get back on track. The longer it takes our brains to go. “What was I talking about then? What was that?” if you haven’t had a good night’s sleep that’s hard.
Kate Butcher
That explains a lot. I have to say I had a great night’s sleep last night, I was in bed before nine o’clock and then I snoozed my alarm for an hour this morning as well. So longer than usual. I definitely needed it, because I clearly was tired, which is probably why I’ve struggled with focus for the last few days. Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic. So you’ve, you’ve told us about some of the challenges that you faced. What are some of the things that you have found, we’ve we have just touched on a couple of them there but, things that you found that have really helped you, as a parent, juggling that parent and business challenge?
Vivienne Hill
I think that, rewarding myself every time I feel as though I have made progress, I give myself a high five, or go “Yes, well done me” and I think we need to start to pat ourselves on the back, especially if we are solopreneurs if we are on our own, in an environment, which can be full on and there’s nobody else to support you, or to you know, give you a pat on the back for your, well nobody else knows necessarily, then you’ll need to do it for yourself. Our brains are set up they’re, they’re wired for connection, and for appreciation. We have all the chemicals set up, all the neuro chemicals are set up waiting for you to be nice to yourself, and when you are, and they flood through your brain you go “ahh that’s what happiness feels like.” “That’s what success feels like.” or “That’s what…” you know, somebody saying thank you feels like, and we can do it to ourselves. So that would be that would be a really big thing that I would say, rewards, that will help you through the tough times, and so on. And also the other thing that it does, if you have different size rewards for the different chunks of things that you’re doing so this is only a little thing, “I’m just going to work for half an hour then I can have a cup of tea.” Well, it’s often with working mothers it’s something like that, or a wee.
And then, if you know, it might be something big like, you’ve had a launch, and it’s and yet you’ve had your eye on a handbag, you know, or the new purse, or something. Buy it. And think of it as your anchor gift. It’s anchoring in that reward and it’s a tangible representation of your success, and your progress, and your ability to have got there. “Well done me.” You know and and you have it there and every time you look at it, it anchors in further that reward system so, you know, you would look at it and get a flood of dopamine. Dopamine is “good on me. I’ve done a good job” and that’s, you know, that’s how it represents and dopamine will firm up your understanding and agreement with yourself that you can do it, that challenges are possible. So that’s sort of what I’d say I’d say reward is a big part because, we as mothers, beat ourselves up so much about this, that and the other, that parent guilt I’m not spending enough time with them, when they are here I’m telling to be quiet or I’m just ordering them around, you know, those things that come up for us when we’re working, from home, or as working mums. It’s hard and we don’t look after ourselves well enough, most of us so yeah.
Kate Butcher
That’s very true. That’s very true. And I think, you talked about, specifically there, about giving yourself a pat on the back, saying Well done to yourself, I think is something that we find really hard to do. And one of the things that really helped me with that was, understanding, I suppose, the different, what’s the book? Dr. Gary Chapman, “The Five Love Languages” and how we all respond, and receive, love and therefore potentially give love, in different ways. And one of those is words of affirmation. And it was really interesting. I read the book and realised that that for me is something that’s quite important. I do need words of affirmation. I do need people to say well done to me, and I’ve noticed it in my husband as well. That’s uh, he notices when he doesn’t get thanked for something or when he doesn’t get somebody appreciating how hard he’s worked on something, it really bothers him that he hasn’t had those words of affirmation.
So I’ve started really making a conscious effort, to try and give those affirmations to people around me and try to encourage, certainly my husband, or other people, to do that for me as well. But I think we’re not good at doing that for ourselves. And I’ve heard it said before, and I’m, I’m sure you’ve heard it, or would agree, sometimes we need to think about what we would say to our friend if they had done that, or you know, someone that we care about, you know if my husband’s been working hard on a project, on a non work project in his workshop, I’m gonna make him a cup of coffee because he’s been working hard for a while and he needs a cup of coffee, but you said there about you know, just as a small reward can be go and make yourself a cup of tea or a cup of coffee, after a period of work. And that that is your, your little reward and it’s it’s good to remind yourself that you need those things. Absolutely.
Vivienne Hill
Oh, well, there’s another thing so you said the word need. So that’s the other thing that I would talk about and I do talk about quite a lot in my programmes, is that we can’t function without our needs being met, and our needs, we can be simple creatures, we don’t you know, particularly looking at us physiologically, our needs are; water, food, movement and sleep. We know we need those things. We might need other things as well. For instance, if you have a problem with your back, it might be that you need acupuncture, once a week, once a month, something like that to make it all okay, to make you okay because that’s what our needs do, they bring us to, okay. They don’t make our lives fantastic, or you know, on their own. But compared with where you might be now, if you had a good night’s sleep, you would probably feel fantastic because the comparison is you know, it’s so stark, the difference is so stark, but meeting our needs is something that I always talk about, and sometimes, most of the time I’m good at it myself, not 100% of the time it has to be said so when I have a busy period, or if I’m in launch mode, or if I’m, I have a heap of clients or there might be one client who’s you know, there’s something there might be something in the back of my mind. That might stop me sleeping perfectly that I might not eat I might have a slightly restless sleep or something.
But in general, I am aware of my needs, partially because I spend so much time talking to other people about meeting theirs, it seems wrong for me to not at least make an effort to meet mine, so I drink lots of water and I eat really healthy food for the most part, but I’ve got a Fitbit so, my movement is generally walking and sleep. So they’re like, that’s a starting point, if you can get your needs met, your life will change, and biggest bang for buck; sleep.
Kate Butcher
That’s good to know. I’m definitely going to have another early night tonight. Oh, fantastic. Wow. Thank you Viv, loads of gems of wisdom for us there. Can I ask one final question? And I haven’t preempted you on this, so I hope it doesn’t throw you too much. I, As you know, I’m a big fan of reading, listening, listening to books about self development, and business, and success, and lots of different things. Do you have a particular favourite book, that you would recommend to a mum in business who needs some kind of encouragement, or self development, or what what really good book have you read?
Vivienne Hill
Well, the book or books, the person that’s written books about people in business, women in business specifically, is Denise Duffield-Thomas and she’s sort of, she’s one of my mentors, and she’s definitely very much in the forefront of my mind as I go through my business life. I like the way that she, she’s very conversational. Interestingly, we used to live in the same little town, same town in Australia. I didn’t know her then, and in fact, I think when I left she was just beginning really on this, on her entrepreneurial journey. And so I really I love what she says, she talks about being lazy and when we say lazy, many of us go “lazy? I don’t want people to think I’m Lazy, Lazy is really bad.” And that’s because our society is a bit messed up, and you get a busyness badge of honour, and that’s rubbish. We don’t need to always be busy. I’ve lived, I’ve lived the busy life, and I can tell you that it’s not, you know, it’s not, and you don’t need to be told, because you’re already living it, but it’s not what it’s cracked up to be. And it’s not physiologically it’s not what it’s cracked up to be. And we’re not built to be on, you know, switched on, 24/7, we’re not meant to be like that. And so I love her philosophy of being the lazy entrepreneur. It’s not that she doesn’t work hard, because she does, but I would say in bursts. So not all the time, and she’s very aware of her activities, Now that might sound a bit impossible, to many people starting out. But have a look at her “Get Rich Lucky Bitch” and “Chillpreneur” books, and have a read of the way that, she brings you into her world, into her way of thinking, and I really love her. So Denise Duffield-Thomas.
Kate Butcher
No I totally agree with that recommendation. Well we did one of her challenges a little while ago together didn’t we as Accountability buddies and that.
Vivienne Hill
Yes.
Kate Butcher
And yeah I’ve read her books also and find, and I find them very inspiring and, yeah. I loved her books. I found them brilliant. So yeah, I absolutely agree with that, thank you for that recommendation.
Vivienne Hill
You’re welcome.
Kate Butcher
Fantastic. Well I think that’ll draw us to a close for today. Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom that you’ve shared with us. You’ve brought in loads of gems of both the time when your children were young and you were trying to juggle, but also more recent, all the coaching experience that you have as well, and how you can maybe overlay the two over each other, and look at how they would have worked together, which is fab. So thank you so much, and we will no doubt speak again soon.
Vivienne Hill
Thanks Kate.